How would you describe the situation in Pakistan at the moment?

Pakistan today is facing a severe crisis. The very future of Pakistan that was envisioned by its founders, especially Muhammad Ali Jinnah, was of a democratic state, moderate in its outlook, relatively secular, and this is under attack in a way it never has been in its history. And the fate of this battle for the soul of Pakistan has tremendous implications for the whole world. Pakistan has the world’s fastest growing nuclear arsenal today. It has more terrorists per square kilometre than any other country in the world. It is the second largest Muslim country in the world and in 15 years it will be the largest Muslim country in the world. On virtually every issue that matters to people in America, the UK and Europe, from nuclear war to terrorism, the future of democracy and Islamic extremism, Pakistan is the future of all those things. And it is a uniquely combustible mix of them that makes Pakistan so important today.

So we really should be taking note of what is going on and trying to understand the country better. I hope we will get more of an overview with your five books. Your first choice is Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy and the West by Benazir Bhutto, the transcript of which was finished just before her assassination.

Yes, I think this is a really remarkable book. It is a mix of several things. It is her second autobiography. She wrote one when she was much younger, Daughter of the East, and this one kind of finishes the story of her life – unfortunately it literally finishes the story of her life. But in addition to being an autobiography, it is also a manifesto. And it is a manifesto of those who believe that Islam is a religion of moderation and of modernity. She tries in this book, and I think succeeds brilliantly, to demolish the argument of those Muslim extremists and fundamentalists who say women are inherently second class in the Islamic world and that jihad is the only answer to the struggle between Islam and the West.

And she points out that, in fact, the Koran and Islamic beliefs are very much consistent with the vision of a modern, moderate Islam. And it is precisely because she so brilliantly demolished the arguments of the extremists and stood as the symbol of a modern, moderate Islam, especially in Pakistan, that she was murdered three years ago.

Did you meet her?

I had the privilege of meeting her several times and talking to her. I found her to be the person who probably gave me more insights into the nature of modern Pakistani politics and history than any other person I met.

But she is nevertheless a controversial figure.

Well, like any politician she comes with a complete package of flaws as well as stars. She had her flaws like any other politician, there is no doubt.

Your next book is Shuja Nawaz’s Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army and the Wars Within, which looks at the role of Pakistan’s army and its relationship with the United States.

Shuja Nawaz’s book is a monumental study of the Pakistani army and its politics, and, since Pakistan is a country in which the army has always had an unusually large role in determining the political and economic future of the country, it is absolutely critical to understanding modern Pakistan. Shuja comes from a family that is part of the establishment. He knows the army from the inside and is able to tell the story of its development and how it played an increasingly important role in the country’s politics.

At the same time, he maintains the objectivity you need to have. So this is not the army’s story of its role in Pakistan but really an objective study of their role in Pakistan and in politics.

And what does he think needs to happen with the army?

To sum it up, the army needs to stay in the barracks as a professional military force and stay out of politics.

In your recent book, Deadly Embrace, you also examine the US’s relationship with Pakistan. Obviously it is very complex but how would you describe it?

I would say that the United States has had a tempestuous relationship with Pakistan. There have been moments of great embrace between the two of us in the 50s and 60s when we built the secret U2 base there to fly over the Soviet Union. Also in the 1980s when we supported the mujahideen in the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan and then at the beginning of this century when the United States and Pakistan worked very closely against al Qaeda. These periods of great highs have also been interrupted by great lows when we have broken relations, we have sanctioned Pakistan and we have cut off arms exports at critical moments of their history.

It is this up and down, oscillating nature of the relationship that has proven in the long term to be so damaging because it sent a message to the Pakistanis that America is not a reliable partner for the simple reason that we haven’t been a reliable partner for Pakistan.

So what would you like to see happen in the future, because some Pakistanis would argue that the US props Pakistan up artificially and that is not good for Pakistan?

Well, it is not good.