I understand you believe that Peter Bergen’s book, The Osama bin Laden I Know, offers some insight into why Bin Laden had such influence in Pakistan.

Peter Bergen is undoubtedly the world’s leading expert on Al-Qaeda and his three books on the subject have made a very significant contribution to the study of terrorism. The Osama bin Laden I Know is a very important study because it explains the nature of the network that Bin Laden created. Peter, from whom I have learnt a lot, interviewed dozens of individuals who have first-hand knowledge of Al-Qaeda ideology and Bin Laden’s mindset. It gives astounding and unparalleled access to knowledge that emanated from his fieldwork. Bin Laden’s network was operating worldwide but the book also explains how crisis in Afghanistan and instability in Pakistan’s northwest provided a space for this terror network to survive and even grow. This book should be a textbook for South Asia’s military, intelligence and police academies because it explains how terrorists think, recruit and operate in volatile environments.

So the book is relevant to Pakistan?

This book is very relevant to Pakistan because its law enforcement agencies and the military need to understand how terrorist organisations strategise and plan. Pakistan is faced with a growing terrorism challenge and clearly its security services have failed to understand the underlying dynamics of extremism and terrorism. Pakistan’s experts and journalists need to go out in the field and find out how leaders of other militant and terror organisations in Pakistan think and operate before they can expect to tackle them effectively. The approach adopted in this book could help them enormously in this effort.

I originally asked you to choose books on political reform in Pakistan. You said that in Pakistan we had to talk about reform more broadly, that it’s not just about politics. Can you explain?

I think the nature of the challenges faced by Pakistan today are such that without having a comprehensive approach, no reform in any one specific sector will work. These challenges are all so linked with one another. Political reform is inextricably linked with reform of the way religion is believed, perceived and practiced in the country. The same goes for education reform or healthcare reform. All of these are hugely dependent on political reform. But no political reform will work unless it provides some hope to the ordinary people in the shape of more economic opportunities.

But in political terms, what is the status of Pakistan now? Is it a functioning democracy?

Yes, it is. But there are serious limitations. One thing very few people know internationally is that Pakistan came into being as a democracy. Four days before Pakistan’s first day of independence, which was 14 August 1947, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the founding father, addressed the constituent assembly, the body that legislated for Pakistan. And he provided guiding principles for the nascent state. He argued that Pakistan was not going to be a theocracy. He was very clear that there is a difference between a Muslim state and an Islamic state, and he made the case that Pakistan was going to be a progressive, democratic, Muslim state.

Then Pakistan, in the last 62 years, went through several major stages. Four martial laws, first from 1958 to 1969, then from 1969 to 1971. The third one was from 1977 to 1988, and then the last one, Musharraf’s, was from 1999 to 2008. But inbetween these four periods of military rule – where the chief of army took over the country – there were democratic periods. And in all these four periods, it was public pressure that forced the military to stop governing. Currently, Pakistani democracy is not fully functional in a Western sense, but there is a lot of resilience in Pakistan to aspire to that democratic model.

The present status is that they have an elected president and an elected prime minister who, though not very popular, were elected through a proper democratic process. There’s a parliament, with an upper house and lower house, and with representatives from all minority communities including Christians and Hindus. Yes, the military has a dominant role, but primarily in the foreign policy arena. That can also change. We cannot expect the military to go back to their barracks, in the real sense of the word, so soon after military rule is over. It takes time. Pakistan is struggling. There are also strong non-democratic forces operating in the country, but Pakistan is moving through a step-by-step process towards vibrant democracy.

So with the rest of the books you’ve chosen, are they looking at ways to strengthen the democracy that the country is struggling towards?

Absolutely, yes. And the authors of these books also explain the different routes that reform could take in making Pakistan a progressive, functional state. They discuss whether Pakistan is a failed state or a failing state. I think it’s very clearly a weak state, a dysfunctional state. The next book I picked is by Benazir Bhutto.

Yes, tell me about her book, which she completed just before she was assassinated. It’s called Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy and the West. How does it fit in?

The primary focus of the book is reconciliation and she talks about it at two levels. One is Islam and democracy. She makes it very clear that from her perspective – and this is, I would argue, a mainstream view within Pakistan and elsewhere also – there is no contradiction between Islam and democracy. Yes, there are hardliners, there are religious extremists, and she explains in detail how they tried to nullify this idea. But benefiting from her knowledge of religion and of religious political discourse, she is able to argue that democracy fits in very well within the larger Islamic worldview, within Islamic thinking.

The second level of the book is her case for more understanding between the Muslim world and the West. She argues that any conflict, or any difference based on religious lines, will be counterproductive for both. So this is from someone who was a major political leader – the first woman elected as prime minister of any Muslim state – making the case for reconciliation not only between Islam and democracy but also between Islam and the Muslim world, including Pakistan, and the Western world.